Yesterday I read the post about the reporter from the New Times, Craig Agranoff who reported on the South Domainers meeting, concluding:
“””Mingling in the crowd, I found that most domainers are either amateurs like me, who sell the occasional $200 or $300 name or are posers who haven’t sold much and have little idea how to really go about it””
Wow
All I can say is Mr. Agranoff maybe you should have done a better job in reporting.
Maybe you should have met more of the 50 people in attendance.
Mixed in with those “amateurs” where some of the most successful domainers in the industry.
Sahar Sarid, a member of the Domain Hall Of Fame, with a killer portfolio and the owner of an domain name auction platform on Bido.com, apparently escaped unnoticed by the New Times writer.
Chad Folkening, of ecorp.com who has a great portfolio of over 13,000 domains was also hanging out at the dinner and apparently did not catch the eye of Agranoff.
Yes I was there too, sitting next the one and the only Chef Patrick and I never saw or heard of Mr. Agranoff until I read his story yesterday.
So if as Andrew of domainnamewire.com said, the author thought he “showed up to the event thinking he’d be surrounded by prolific domainers”
He was.
He just didn’t know it.
That’s his fault.
Sahar Sarid says
Funny Mike, Chad and I were sitting right across the table from Craig (the writer), and you were sitting right behind me. Ya there were lots of amateur, but there were few top players as well (yourself included). All he had to do was ask.. Oh well.
Best,
Sahar
BullS says
Just ignore Mr. Agranoff the Bozo…he is one piss off man who missed the boat.
Gordon says
It’s the opinion of one person on a random blog, why does everyone get so offended? I’ve never witnessed such thin skin in any industry I’ve been a part of.
JS says
Gordon, it’s just a matter of setting the record straight.
Anthony says
Smear merchants who traffic in distortion and innuendo must always be confronted. These spineless weasels are allergic to the truth.
MHB, thanks for protecting and defending our industry.
@ Gordon – New Times has a circulation of 70,000, not a “random blog”
MHB says
Gordon
.
He is not writing for a “just a blog”, which is opinion based, but for The New Times, which is one the largest of what is called alternative publications in South Florida, which thinks of itself as more of a newspaper which is fact based.
So all I’m saying is if your writing for a “newspaper” and your sitting across from people making seven figures a year and talk about the meeting you attended with a bunch of guys making $200-$300 a domain sale, I think you did a poor job.
Craig Agranoff says
Guys it was impossible for me to interview everyone obviously. Yes I was sitting across from Sahar, and chad, and told them both I was writing an article, which would have been a great chance for them to talk about their role in the industry. Unfortunately I didn’t have the opportunity to speak much to them about it. I have met Chad before, and outside of knowing he enjoys the “channel” domains lately, we really didn’t get to go any further. And I am sure there were others there with big portfolios that also might have gone un-noticed. My information was based upon the specific people I was able to speak with.
I am overjoyed that there were almost 50 people at this event, and I personally plan on continuing to come and support the community. But when there are 50 people attending, it is nearly impossible to find everyone.
@MHB you mentioned in your comment “and your sitting across from people making seven figures a year” I would love to speak to anyone to can prove to me they make seven figures a year consistently as a “domainer.” It would be a great article to prove the inverse of what I said, and I will CERTAINLY give a full piece devoted to spotlighting them. Contact me on twitter @lapp to introduce me to these seven figure a year specific domain earners please. I came to the event just as a spectator and figured I would give it some press.
@anthony I don’t consider myself a spineless weasel, and would love the opportunity to meet you in person at the next event to discuss why you would make an accusation like this. Cause people don’t agree with what you think makes them spineless?
snicksnack says
I think you only need o google and you will find the names of the Domainers making 7 figures a year.
Craig Agranoff says
@snicksnack http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=domainers+making+7+figures+a+year&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=cbc2f75bf9d43a8f are any of them folks from the SFD event?
Ary says
Your a complete novice Agranoff that did no research and wrote a poor article. Now many will make sure they expose your shoddy writing for what it really is. Have a good day.
John Holland says
Hey Craig,
Hope to meet you at the next event. I sent you some links via twitter.
Ary says
Comments on the blog you can see Stephen Douglas does a great job and gets a joke of a response back. What can you expect though if this guy had any real talent he would write for a real newspaper.
Stephen Douglas says:
Hi,
I seem to get a feeling that you’re an intelligent person, which seems so much more disturbing when I read your article on a small get-together of mainly local domainers, amateurs, novices and experts.
First of all, I will warn you I’m from the “Arctic region” of the domain industry. There’s a lot of high powered domainers up here that equal the diagonal cross country cousins in S. Florida. NOTE: Domainers don’t rate each other by their geo location…
So my questions to you are these:
1) How did you come to the conclusion that “lawyers” are heavily involved in domain investing? Can you give just two or three examples of proving your statement?
2) Same as #1, how did you come to the conclusion that most domainers are “conniving”? And when you chose that word, how did what you experienced at the SFD meeting give you that conclusion? And can you tell me any business you know of where the participants don’t fall into a gray area surrounding the term “conniving”?
3) And back to my perception of your intelligence, I’d like to know why you wrote a blanket assessment on “domainers” by attending a small, local event, that doesn’t include the global players that you would meet at the largest domain conference, DomainFest?
Finally, when you call domainers “conniving”, where do you fall into that category, since you state:
“I attended the event having been invited by a friend. I’ve dabbled in domain trading and development before and have made some money doing it, but I have always thought of myself as just a dabbler, an amateur. Turns out, I’ve done more of it than most of the “experts” in attendance. A lot of them were there, I think, to try to siphon information from the successful domainers.”
Pray tell, Mr. Agranoff, why were YOU there?
Domain investing is simply a marketing sector online, used by all the major corporations, and businesses of all sizes. It includes individual “investors” capitalizing on discovering a “gold mine” or two in domains. I don’t have any examples, but I’m sure nobody wrote about successful gold miners in 1880 California, calling them “conniving”.
What’s conniving is the amount of posts you get from “anonymous” readers too chicken to reveal who they are to lend some credibility to their statements, or not.
Good luck in your domain investing…
Posted On: Saturday, Dec. 12 2009 @ 5:21PM Craig Agranoff says:
Guys, some of the very “top level” domainers who you seem to praise on the other blogs and such, were the very people I found to be conniving. Anytime someone asks you a question that they do not want to answer when asked back, is conniving.
I was happy I attended and I plan on continuing to attend.
@stephendouglas:
1) I spoke to about 4 attorneys dealing in this who provided me with ample information on the industry. Even Brian told me he cannot disclose a sale to me since there were lawyers involved.
2) I am sure every industry has their “connivers.” My reason for using this “conniving” term was based upon some of the conversations I had.
3) I wrote the blanket assessment due to the fact that I was at a small, local, event.The Broward/Palm Beach New Times is a local publication.
Ary says
Oh who is more conniving that a reporter ? Especially one for a hack publication ?
Sahar Sarid says
@Craig I had no issues with the article, it is what it is. Hopefully with time you will understand more and be able to write more insightful articles about Domaining. More importantly, as with any industry, there’s the good, the bad, and the very ugly, and I hope, if you continue and cover the industry, you will report equally about all those areas.
Best,
Sahar
David J Castello says
With all due respect to everyone here Craig Agranoff said that he told Sahar and Chad that he was a writer doing a story (some writers won’t tell you). New Times is not a small company and, if I’d been there (I don’t arrive in FL until 12/15 or I most certainly would have been), Mr Agranoff would’ve had my complete attention. This was a golden opportunity to get the word out about our industry and straighten out some stereotypes.
David J Castello says
PS to Craig: I know more than a few domainers who make seven figures a year including me and my brother.
Craig Agranoff says
David, I look forward to meeting you and possibly including you in part II of this topic!
Craig Agranoff says
Anyways, this will be my last time responding to these comments, since it is frivilous to even entertain some of these remarks. You can all find me on twitter @lapp and if you really think I am wrong, I am happy to hear what you say, and possibly include you in the next article about this. But it will take more then what immature “amateurs” like Ary and Anthony have to say.
I look forward to hearing from you Sahar as well!
Craig
@lapp
Alan says
Craig,
Its always a catch 22 – someone publishes what is defined as an amateurish article of the domain industry yet at the same time many domainers dont like to talk specifics. I think the report was way off since even a simple Google search would show many people making big money in this space.
I can certainly name quite a few people at the event that have made millions in this business including myself. Ironically Sahar and I were chatting at the event and brought up the whole topic of not wanting to get credit for most of the sales we do as most people who have been in this business for a while don’t care about the credit.
Mike is right – In fact, being a South Florida resident I can certainly attest the New Times is quite a popular publication .. especially for those late night ads many “real” newspapers flush to the middle of sports section lol – No really, its actually probably better than the main papers around here. Articles usually have the kind of flair you want to read rather than the toned down reprints of yesterdays news that was available online 24 hours earlier from the classic newspapers
Lack of investigative journalism is nothing new but neither is the secrecy in this industry. David’s comments were well said above – its take the good with the bad I say – I for one could care less about being a newspaper or on TV and I’m pretty sure many of us who have been around the last decade would say the same.
All in all it was nice to get a few free drinks and see the enthusiam about this industry from so many local people. Reminds of when I started except the lights were off, it was 2 am and nobody knew anyone else in the online except that guy in Vancouver. I think the only person I ever spoke to in 1999 was Yung Yee – he emailed me once and that was my highlight of domain conversation for a year (maybe 2).
We (the industry) have had 100’s – if not 1000’s of misinformed articles printed before so this is nothing new.
Cheers to all
Ary says
Great comments Alan, the only amateur is you Agranoff.
Alan says
Ary,
Just to clear my opinion. I think Craig would be smart in doing a follow up article on the success that can be achieved in this space but one poor article does not make anyone an amateur.
Lack of investigate journalism as exampled here (compare it to attending a dinner where you have a dozen hall of famers and 50 high school baseball players – the writer then does a story describing the industry based on facts from 5 of the high schoolers — this is comprable to the writing in this article with no offense to the actuall high schooler Brian .. really enjoyed his speech and made me feel quite old even when I’m just 36 … note we had to buy cards to use laser printers in college and a text message .. WTF was that lol)
Have no idea who Craig (the writer) is – he may very well be a great writer on topics closer to his interest however as a domainer the issue I would have concerned with is the quality of the initial reporting poses a question of whether or not this writer is capable of actually doing a well rounded follow up article.
Who knows. But I wasn’t taking a personal attack by any means on Craig.
Like I said – cheers to all.
MHB says
Craig
You mentioned Monte in your article, that he got up and spoke and the event was sponsored by his company.
All you had to do is ask Monte to introduce you to some of the bigger domainers and you would have met them.
bruce J tedeschi says
I would not call selling a few names a day for $28 a top player but someone who is building a business to bigger and better sales dollars and is the right thing to do so let’s keep things in perspective here. That said, hear hear to all who snapped up great names or invested in great names early. I would say to this reporter, we were all new domainer’s when we started and we learned from others or blazed the path. Sounds to me, he was just jealous.
Soundly Reasoned says
“Chad and I were sitting right across the table from Craig (the writer), and you were sitting right behind me.” Sahar
“Craig Agranoff said that he told Sahar and Chad that he was a writer doing a story” David C.
If that is true, the fault here is not with the reporter but with the organizers and attendees of this event. The individual who invited the reporter should have informed someone Craig was coming.
“If I’d been there … Mr Agranoff would’ve had my complete attention.” David C.
Exactly.
How many people can one person realistic meet at an event? 10? 20? 30? Smaller domain owners will obviously be the ones scrambling for the most attention. The fact is if it were known that this reporter was at the event he should have been given the opportunity to speak to the group and then take a short Q&A session. This could have broken the ice and then Craig would have known who to speak with, one on one, for the remainder of his time there.
bruce J tedeschi says
Had to come back to this…what is this top player crap? In whose mind? Give me a break
Jeff Geaney says
The minority and the majority are at different spectrums of the paralleled lines that have been drawn in the domaining industry. For those that are still here and moving forward within the domain industry after the aftermath and collapse in 2000, will be the strength and leaders of the new world media that will evolve into the biggest captivator of intelligence ever to be witnessed and harnessed by the evolution of our species.
What is written and what has been written about us on what it is we do, is incomprehensible to the power that will unite our small yet unique group of entrepreneurs over the coming year. We will see those that have been asleep awake to a nightmare, and for us that have been living through hell and enduring sleepless lives, will once again be able to sleep in peace with the knowing that our future is eternally protected.
The very words that bind our industry of domaining and define us on what we are now, will be redefined by the citizens of tomorrow’s world by our actions of today.
WeAreTheFuture.com
Stephen Douglas_Successclick.com says
Hi Em-Bee,
I don’t want to keep discussing this guy, who now is outed as a “reporter” for a newspaper, but my name is mentioned here so I want to just wrap it up. It’s obvious Mr Agranoff didn’t come with all his pencils in his shirt pocket and he seemed to have forgotten his notepad. Maybe RJ can give him some pointers on reporting.
I addressed Agranoff’s statements directly on his site, and he opted to “skip” answering them intelligently. I don’t know if it’s just his style of “reporting” or some other reason, but bottom line, he missed many great opportunities to meet many great domainers at that small but significant event he wrote about.
Nuff said. (Atom and Elliot, don’t nail me on the brevity of this comment! I’m healthy and well!)
Rick Schwartz says
Sorry to see Craig run away. That is normal unfortunately when faced with facts and unable to admit they got it wrong.
What I find disturbing, is faced with the facts that are not consistent with his article, the article remains unfactual and unedited to fix those inaccuracies. I know when I am emailed new info that is not in line with what I have written, I update it to reflect the new info. So I don’t like sloppy reporting, lazy reporting and reporting that shows a bias without facts to support that bias. Not trying to pick a fight with Craig, but as a reporter and watching how awful the MAJORITY reporters do their job of late, it is hard to remain silent. Facts count and you can still have an opinion. So we are watching old media fail not because of their business model but they refuse to understand their REAL job which is reporting facts. HARD facts. Agenda based reporting has killed their industry because now they must compete with average people that actually have facts. That makes reporters with agendas and biases have no value. We will continue to see that fallout thru 2010. They have been completely marginalized by citizen reporting that has uncovered their agendas. I don’t think this is a good thing. But when the reporting industry loses their way, this is what we get and this is what we have.
I am not sure how many folks make 7 figures annually in domaining. I would guess about 200-250. Pretty sizeable for an industry with only 2000 or less full time domainers. I wonder how many other industries have 10%-15% of it making 7 figures annually? Let’s try NONE.
Personally, I have made over 7 figures a year every year since 1997. Most were multiple 7 figures and I am far from the top when it comes to earnings. I can rattle off 20 guys off the top of my head making more not to mention the 9 figure companies in the space.
Now it is true that there are a lot of folks on the bottom end making just a few dollars. But that is true of every industry up and down and especially emerging industries. Then again I guess it becomes how you define a “Domainer.” I would say at the very least he does it full time regardless of other businesses they may have or be involved in and turns a profit. So a guy with a job and 100, 500, 5000 domains with no earnings is not a domainer by any standards I can think of and I certainly would not want them speaking for me. We are WORLD’S apart.
If a man puts a string in the water does that make him a fisherman? A string with no hook? Interview 100 guys that fish with no hook and I wonder what type article that would be?
Danny Pryor says
One of the things I find disturbing, having been a reporter once, is how Mr. Agranoff came to the conclusion that not answering a reporter’s question was the benchmark of whether a person is conniving. If I was to ask Mr. Agronoff how big his portfolio is, then refused to answer the question, myself, that does not make me a conniver! If I told Joe Journalist I own 300 names or 3,000 or 30,000 names, then Joe Journalist refused to answer the question, I may think Mr. Journalist is a butt head, but not a conniver.
Perhaps, as Occam might suggest, the simplest answer is that I don’t want to give you an answer. If I do provide an answer, and it’s not the truth, that would make me a conniver. Not answering is not a qualifier without additional facts, and then one must qualify those additional facts (not to parrot Rick, but his points are valid).
Here’s the long-and-short: Reporters can take information and distort it, use the facts out of context and generally misrepresent comments or answers. I used to see it all the time. Shamefully, I did it on a few occasions, myself. It’s human nature to do it, and reporters are not immune to human nature.
It is amazing how in this case, the reporter may have taken the lack of answer and used that as an opportunity to proffer to the world a very distorted perception. Though, it does come across as opined journalism, rather than as a statement or record.
I do not speak for the domain industry, by a long shot. But as a developer who also has a small portfolio of names, I’d be happy to clarify a few points for Mr. Agranoff, at his leisure.
Chef Patrick says
“Sitting next the one and the only Chef Patrick”, lol. My mom did tell me they broke the mold after me.
Craig Agranoff’s article is extremely disappointing.
First, the use of “conniving” basically because we use attorneys or a sale is restricted because of an NDA. Lawyers are used in every business in the world. When money exchanges hands people like to have contracts to protect all parties. It’s not the domainers that want to hide the sale amounts. It’s the non-domainer buyers that wish for that information to be private.
Craig failed big time with this article. He made no effort to reach out to the large domainers in the room. It was never announced that a “reporter” was in the room. This was a very casual meetup. No one stood up, introduced themselves and what they earned last year from domaining. The fact is he didn’t really make the effort to ask who the big players were. Oversee.net has a portfolio of roughly 700,000 domain names and not once does he bring them up. Michael Berkens, 2009 Domainer of the Year and owner of nearly 75,000 domain names was not brought up once. Michael would have been the perfect person to have talked to. What about Sahar Sarid, Howard Neu, Alan Dunn, Monte Cahn? Nope! Aside from the big domainers, did he talk to anyone that earned a full time income from the domain industry? Nope!
Maybe the smaller domainers are at fault as well. I’m sure a few domainers threw around NDA’s to hide the fact they really haven’t made money. But that doesn’t clear the reporter from his responsibilities of getting all the facts and talking to everyone.
Craig. Reach out the people I mentioned. Reach out to David Castello when he comes to his Florida vacation home for the holidays. And if all else fails, reach out to me. I may not have made millions from domain investing but I do earn a full time income from it and report on the business daily.
Mike Ward says
I left that meeting full of enthusiasm, hyped up from the energy level there. Looking back I still relish the interactions I had with friends and the new people I met there. The big downer for me was simply the limited time that I was able to spend “siphoning off wisdom” from the great minds of this industry like Michael Berkins due to the nature of the event and the number of people in attendance. Anyone that attended and left there with a negative feeling, well I just don’t understand it. I wish we could’ve locked the doors and forced some of you guys to talk for days at great length.
Anyway with respect to the article, there were negative portrayals of domainers that bothered me. I’ve read so many articles over the years portraying this industry in a negative light that I always cringe a little when I read certain characterizations. The remarks about lawyers and their role in this industry, and the colorful descriptors used bothered me because it all seems to imply a lack of fairness or unscrupulous behavior. Moreover it fails to acknowledge the real innovation and genius some of these guys have exhibited in their careers.
We all know there is a tiny minority of domainers that engage in the sort of trademark infringing activities that the media loves to talk about, along with a small contingent that operate in the “gray areas”. But the truth is that this profession is chocked full of visionaries who have a knack for identifying opportunities and creating unique strategies to address those. The very essence of entrepreneurship is well represented even by the people commenting on this page! I’m a developer who buys a lot more domains than I sell. But I’ve been hanging around the periphery long enough to have seen some of the sheer genius exhibited by some top domainers over the years. And I’m grateful to have opportunities to learn from some of them.
Ze says
Can anyone in this industry take an opinion from a self-proclaimed “outsider”?
What a bunch of Madonnas… Reminds me of a grandma and her friends bitchin about some old lady that wears a funny dress. Maybe we would all be better business people if we didn’t spend so much time pointing the finger at each other… maybe we can all make seven figures… Get back to work!
MHB says
Ze
The guys writes for a newspaper.
When you write for a newspaper you are a journalist you are reporting news and basing your story on facts.
He is not writing some blog filled with opinions.
bruce J tedeschi says
Time to let this go guys….
Bill F says
I’m far from the biggest fan of what is called “journalism” these days, and had I been first to post, I probably would have been highly critical of Mr. Agranoff.
Now, after reading the accumulation of posts telling this guy what a lousy reporter he is, I’m thinking were the ones who look pretty stupid. All we ever talk about is how domainers need to educate the public and get the word out. Then, we get the attention of a reporter who gets the story wrong (don’t they usually?), and we are all over him…just showering him with criticism and complaints. I doubt this will encourage him to report more favorably on the domain business.
In a well-covered area, such as stock investing, it’s easy to rip apart poorly written stories – as they should be. But, the fact is…almost no mainstream journalists ever even attempt to cover domaining.
If we were a bunch of man-hungry girls locked up in a Catholic convent somewhere, would we chase away the first traveling salesman to enter our doors just because he needs a shower? I think not. We would gently suggest a bath, and encourage him to send his colleagues over. The way we treat our suitors now, we’ll just have to settle for goldiestoybox.com (nsfw).
Gordon says
Amen Bill F.
the follow up comments here confirm the sentiments of my original comment This guy writes a few posts a week on a tech blog on the website of an alternative paper.
His post should have been better, and the word “conniving” should have been left out (it seems to have been removed btw) – but this was a a blog post – one mans view of the world and in my opinion, it wasn’t nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
So now another relative “outsider” has stepped his toe a bit more into the industry – in good faith – and has now been chased away with a bad taste in his mouth by a handful of angry domainers.
MHB says
Guys
I do not believe we have scared or chased away the writer.
He’s a professional and as such I think with what he has learned here he is going to dive even harder into the business.
His curiosity is peaked, he knows there is a hell of a story here and I don’t think this is the last we are going to hear from him.
Chef Patrick says
@MHB – I gave him my contact information. He said he’d give me a call tomorrow. My goal it to get the word conniving out of the article and a head start on his follow up story.
Stephen Douglas_Successclick.com says
@ Bruce
I was ready to “let it go” and then you brought it up again!
Seriously, when people are discussing something, why try to crush the discussion? It will find its own end, my friend.
bruce J tedeschi says
@ Stephen…. can’t we all just get along? heheheheheheheh
Stephen Douglas_Successclick.com says
@Bruce
NO! Not unless we can all sit around a nice bonfire and pass around a giant jug of “apple cider”.
(Yeah, I just discovered that in the mid 1880’s, Apples were considered “sinful” fruit, because so many people were making that tasty “apple cider”. So instead of addressing the issue of “why are people getting drunk all day on apple cider”, they just chose to demonize apples. The nature of a non-thinking civilization — yep, I’m a liberal “elitist”.
As for “getting along”, discussion creates a ‘symbiosis’ that then sets a consensus of acceptable behavior. We just have to find out what that is!
cheers
bruce J tedeschi says
How about giving him a second chance and inviting him to a local meeting over a few beers. Allow him to ask questions and learn. So many people say this is not a real industry… I hate to tell them, this industry is set to explode againwhen this economy starts to pickup.
If domainer’s can make it through 2-renewal cycles, they will be rewarded. I am not putting myself in the top money earners, but I do make a full-time living off of domains and I have a PhD in Business focusing on economics. IMHO opinion, scoop up job domains and financial domains. These will hit the top five in the next 24 months.
bruce J tedeschi says
@Chef …. Patrick you are the perfect example of how someone can switch their careers and within 18-months, be successful at it. I have a lot of new domainers ask me how can I get started quickly, I tell him watch chef patrick’s moves and mimic them.
I encourage you to keep going and do what you are doing…
Chef Patrick says
Thank you Bruce, I appreciate the compliment. I’ve still got a lot to learn and a long way to go before I’ll consider myself successful.
chad f says
Man, I need to google myself more often. I was unaware this article, discussion was out until now, 2 months later. As a full time domainer for 14 years now, its good to see pockets and meet new people. During these events, I like to focus on people I want to get to know and see how working in the industry with others can benefit partnerships and make money and value.. I’m not a media hound so when a reporter mentions they are doing a story, great but they should dedicate more time then just saying there doing a story and leave it at that. Paul Sloan went out and spent the time to research the industry. There were some big guys there in niche industries, along with my usual friends, so I spend the limited time I have with them. If he would have mentioned he would like to talk and discuss more, then would have been happy to give him 15 minutes to discuss when I went to the Whitehouse to meet Ira Magaziner before the issuance of new global TLDS, etc. , Case law establishment, Corporate legal abuse, theft, loopfuls and even the time when we thought about taking down the root A servers going throught the worldnic backdoor. Joke on the taking down servers but I met a couple others that mentioned it and we would have succeeded. Anyways, I going to read his article now but our industry is not very big so let people learn from there mistake, we all make them. Happy Domaining…. P.s. Dont disclose what we make but 14 years full time, fully paid assets, 26k ft. estate, condo in Miami, health and happiness, money doesnt matter, its about being Happy, Healthy and Having fun and Domains give me the base to be and do those things, not to mention meeting some of the best people in any industry….
Stephen Douglas_Successclick.com says
Chad closes the thread with style and sting.
soooo sweet.
Thank Chadster!