Alexander Schubert Of .Gay “The Only Good Domainer Is A Dead Domainer”
If you have attended any TRAFFIC conferences or Domainfest conferences you have probably have run into Alexander Schubert who was a self admitted domainer from 1997-2004.
Alexander was one of the first who went to ICANN and asked for what has become the new gTLD program to be opened when he was petitioning for a .Berlin TLD.
Fast forward a few years and Alexander is out of .Berlin, but heavily involved as one of the applicants for .Gay, DotGay LLC, which has a community application in for the extension.
In a Facebook post Alexander made it clear that domainers are not welcome in the .Gay space should DotGay, LLC get the TLD and went further to warn all other new gTLD operators to “not allow domainers invade their new TLD space”.
We of course have some comments below, but here is Alexanders quotes unedited:
I am a domainer since 1997. I have attended numerous domainer conferences and I know numerous domainers and I know “our” (the domainers) trade.
“Domainers” are one of the core reasons I engaged in new TLDs in 2004.
I do love Domainers.
They are good to party with.
They are clever guys.
I just do not want to see ANY SINGLE ONE of them near any of the TLDs that I will ever create.
To put it more clear: In my eyes one of the core reasons of the deep failure of all to date new TLD’s are DOMAINERS.
They are like grasshoppers on speed invading your little field of freshly planted domain-plants eating the entire country empty leaving NOTHING to “grow and show”.
I am no fan of the NRA or the 2nd amendment but were my TLD a land I would patrol it in person and if I saw a domainer coming near the only warning he would hear would be “krck – krck” and 1 second later he would never hear nothing any more.
As a gTLDer I have to say: “Only a dead domainer is a good domainer”.
Sorry to be so hard but really: Every single one domain that you lose to a domainer does harm your TLD a bit. That’s why we have put in a number of stops to make 100% sure that there will be zero domaining in our TLD.
And I STRONGLY encourage my fellow TLD operators: Don’t dream about “revenues” streaming in through the “domainer channel”.
Yes, revenue it is but you erode your TLD.
A domainer “invests” (reg-fee) in your domains and then he sits at least 5 years on them. No domainer is ever selling a thing within the first 5 years. And he doesn’t create added value (content) either. He either parks it at a parking service or has one of these dreadful “automatic webpages” that try to cheat Google into listing the domain but create ZERO added value for the users. You do take these domains “out of the equation”.
If you do not care about “reach”, “TLD brand awareness” and “impact” in the Internet (for both constituencies of Internet Users and prospective registrants) then OK: Go for domainers. But if you have a long term solution in mind and want to see your TLD making a “change”: Shun them out.
BTW: good idea to go to domainer conferences. The largest one being the “Domainfest” in Santa Monika in early February with virtually ALL the “usual suspects” attending.
I usually encourage my fellow domainers in their prevailing mantra: “New gTLDs are a very bad idea. The only TLD that counts is .com. No benefit in investing in new gTLDs”.
At a domainer meeting you can get in close contact with domainers and they often are willing to explain how they see the world. They all think smth like that: “I am just ONE domainer and how can it hurt a LARGE TLD like .info or .us if I just take away a few names and if it is not me taking these names then another one does it”. That’s exactly the way fishermen overfish regions of our oceans.
On that count: new gTLD operators be aware that EACH and EVERY premium generic keyword is already trademarked somewhere in the world, the top keys often hundreds of times (there had been 241 Sunrise Applications for sex.eu back in 2005).Make a premium domain list (I suggest about XX,XXX keys) and exempt them from Sunrise! Otherwise you run the risk that all the top names are “picked up” for reg fees by Sunrise grabbers.
It happened with .info, .us, .eu and all other “liberations” and TLD introductions and it will happen to you, too.
Look up the 100 top premium keywords and see who owns them in .eu, .info, .us, .biz, etc: 9X% are owned by domainers, parked, multilated, wasted. “Sunrise” is the clever domainers “trojan horse”.
“Any domainers reading this here: No worries if you see me in Santa Monica. I have never owned or even touched a shotgun in my life. And I do not make any “single” domainer responsible for anything. It’s like with grasshoppers: Damage to the crop is always caused by “the swarm” not a single hopper. It is us TLD operators which have to take care and create policies to make our lands unattractive for grasshoppers.
Now its my turn
Wow
Lets look at some of the more successful new TLD’s; .Me and .Co
Yes domainers own some of the prime real estate, but we didn’t just pay registration fees or sunrise fees for all the domains we own.
I paid with two other “grasshoppers” $70,000 for Date.me (paid to the registry) over $30K for Love.me (paid to the registry) Almost $20K for marry.me (paid to the registry) the list goes on and of course many other domainer paid $x,xxx or $xx,xxx to the .me registry for premium domains.
When .XXX launched it was domainers that once again results in the first $2Million dollars or premium sales.
.Co wouldn’t have registered over 200,000 domain names on their first day without domainers.
Lonnie Borck another grasshopper paid the $81,000 for e.co before the extension even launched.
That set the bar for the O.Co sale which by the way a grasshopper, myself planted in the ear of the Overstock people at a ICANN conference.
So I would say its just the opposite, new gTLD’s that fail to get traction in the domain community will be the one’s that will “deeply fail”.
Today one of every 10 .com domains are owned by domainers.
Domainers have a strong presence in .Me., .Tv., .Co.
Of course the Aftermarket in domain names was created by Domainers and the $150M+ in annual sales in large part would not exist without domainers.
Of course we would be remiss if we didn’t say that some of the largest applicants for new gTLD’s including Donuts, Uniregistry and Radix made their money as domainers or from domainers and certainly in the domain industry.
If Alexander doesn’t want any domainers in .Gay then he might be planning on the Gay community stepping up to the plate and paying top dollar for premium domains to make the registry profitable.
However Alexander you should consider that one of the best domains in that entire Gay community, GayMarriage.com is owned by a domainer.
Me
Michael Berkens.
and the Gay community hasn’t been exactly banging down my door to buy it.
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I am not gay…. I am not an opportunist, I own Freengay. gaynfree. the first thing that I did when obtaining these domains is to instruct my parking preference is absolutely no porn.
For those that want to defend Porn…that is fine as it is your personal preference…it is not mine, and I think that at least from my perspective it is a responsible position to take.
I have sites that are against violence, especially gun violence. A few of my latest are banar15 and I am sure that there are plenty that will not agree with my 0poinions there.
My point for these sites is to do my part in promoting discussions on these topics…..but when you disagree, I won’t threaten to kill you.
ET
Alexander is on crack! Domainers give domains value. Without them placing a value on them and purchasing them, they would all be worth $14.95. It appears that Alex didn’t have any real success so he got out of the business. The world wasn’t beating down his door to buy .GAY domains. So he spent his money, made his investments and nobody came knocking…
“I would argue its better for the registry to have sold the domain to a domainer even if the domainer parks it”
You would argue that as a domainer but most Internet users would not. A parking page is an annoyance. If you read these comments it is almost as if domainers never used the Internet themselves.
Rick “pigeon sh!t” Schwartz:
“I am shocked that Alexander would say those things.”
Don’t you send out similar messages on a regular basis?
John “hidden thesis” Berryhill PhD:
“Alexander’s selection of idiomatic phrases and expressions is not always on target.”
Aren’t his phrases similar to your comments about hitting people with metal pipes?
Michael Berkens wrote:
> Grim
> In my opinion this is 100% not a marketing ploy.
Oh well. So Mr. Schubert probably just needs therapy, then. As someone who respects the creative aspects of good marketing, it’s disappointing to hear that this wasn’t an intentional marketing piece, but more likely the ramblings of someone who’s a little, um, ‘off.’
Although to be honest, some of the best marketing people I’ve ever had the pleasure to work with, have been a little crazy.
Unfortunately, there is a world of difference between the domain and land / real estate markets.
In most markets, beat all other bidders by a small margin and you get the item. But domainers maximise income by seeking offers that are a multiple of fair value and ignoring the rest (as evidenced by the <1% of stock that some domainers turn over per year – a level that will see many good domains remain permanently on the shelf).
Your comment is completely outrageous, you know that too because you know better – I know that. Im guessing you probably did not mean it literally, I probably have said much worse things that when read in the cold light of day are not a true expression of my belief or intent at all.
However – You realise you will make less money now right? Sure some endusers will buy some of your domains, and some domainer entities will get in on your premiums – maybe you will break even. You just lost tens of thousands of speculative registrations that, by looking at other some other domainers’ portfolios, would have been easy money for you.
I wouldn’t like to say if you are a fit and proper person to run a gtld but with comments like that I suspect many will think you are not. Good luck with it
How ironic for an applicant of .gay. If I were to incite violence against homosexuals (which I would NEVER) it would be called a hate crime, but it’s okay with this guy to insinuate people who speculate on domains would be better off dead. There have been cases in the past of known spammers who suddenly turned up dead/murdered. God forbid one of this guys readers, maybe some poor sap who can’t stand that a domain owner won’t accept their $10 offer, ends up taking this guys message the wrong way. Mr Schubert ought to really think about what he’s said. I’ll go so far as to say that perhaps a public apology is in order here.
very suprised about the comments, there is good and bad in all markets, most domainers these days try and keep away from trademarks ect, his comments are basically way out of touch. wish him all best with the .gay tld personally would not touch it with bargepole.
So just as an Update I had the chance to chat with Alexander today. We had about a 45 minute call and while he electing not to post on the blog, he wanted to indicate that he wasn’t threatening anyone and agreed it was a very poor choice of words.
That aside we agreed to disagree on the value of domainers in the new gTLD market which is fine with the more important issue now seemly resolved
@ onlinedomain.com
Since your reply was not profane or childish, I’ll respond.
Sure, some end users pay domainers big money. But I’ve also heard domainers say 3 out of every 4 resales is to other domainers. When pressed, I was told that’s the nature of the game. That domainers sell to each other in what sounds like a greater fool theory. Domainer X paid $10,000. Let’s see if domainer Y will pay $30,000. And so on.
You’re the expert, not I. But it seems to me there are no solid metrics to measure domain name values anyway. Sure, you can talk traffic etc., but companies like GoDaddy offer certified domain valuations based on such metrics that are clearly ridiculous. Either to the high or low side, they sound completely made up. It occurs to that it’s because no one really knows what a domain is worth. It’s “worth” what some poor sap (i.e. non-domainer) feels forced to pay. After domainers themselves have driven the price up, I might add.
If domainers are the ones artifically driving prices up, I suggest you’re in a very risky business. Domainers like to make comparisons to real estate. Well, if realtors and investors (i.e. domainers) are driving prices up by selling to each other, how solid is the entire industry? That’s how the housing bubble happened… speculative ownership (domainers) vs. actual home owners (end-users).
What happens when the end-users don’t want to pay artifically inflated prices anymore? What happens to your business then? “Beachfront property” also came crashing down when the housing bubble burst.
I maintain that, even if you use real estate as a comparison to domaining, speculators (domainers) hurt the market. They artifically drive prices up and hurt end-users as a result.
Domainers can all hate on me all they like, but if I was a domainer, I would be hedging my business like crazy! Especially with the changing landscape (i.e. 1,900+ proposed gTLDs). I would not be sitting on my throne expecting nothing to change.
But whatever. We all have own businesses to run. I don’t like speculators in ANY market. I like end-users. I like people who actually use/build things, as opposed to price speculators who reduce the options for end-users.
John “hidden thesis” Berryhill PhD
It doesn’t look hidden to me. Was it mis-shelved?
http://delcat.udel.edu/F?func=find-b-0
Author Berryhill, John Bruce.
Title A novel high-speed light emitting diode for optical interconnections / by John Bruce Berryhill.
Published 1991.
Location Library Annex | TK9999 1992 .B534 1991 | Normal Loan
Gen. note Photocopy.
Principal faculty adviser: Allen M. Barnett, College of Engineering.
Some illustrations are mounted photographs.
Dissertn. Thesis (Ph.D.)–University of Delaware, 1992.
Bibliogr. Includes bibliographical references (leaves 85-91).
Subject Light emitting diodes.
Optical communications.
Sys. no. 000881423
@Paul
Those who are selling 3 out 4 domains to other domainers are not domainers. Not yet anyway. I used to do that 7-8 years ago when I just starting.
They are flipping because some believe that this is how you make money in domaining (and it is not, not in the long run anyway) or they just trying to keep a cash flow(that is what I was doing).
In the past 5 years I must have sold 2-3 domains to other domainers and these were domainers I knew and I wanted to give them a good deal. I have sold hundreds to end-users.
My definition of speculation is a bit different. I believe that everybody speculates on some level. When you are buying stocks, gold, land etc. Even when you are buying your own house you are a speculator. A speculator that hopes to flip the house some day and move to a bigger house. Or you are just speculating that this is going to be a nice neighborhood in 15 years. Any form or investment or business is speculative. Even as an end-user you speculate that the domain will bring you more business and that will enable you to sell the domain in 10 years for x100. Even when you choose what to study, you speculate that these is going to be demand for this line of work in the next 40 years. Everything is a speculation.
John “hidden thesis” Berryhill PhD
“It doesn’t look hidden to me. Was it mis-shelved?”
Send me a copy, in want to take a look.
Paul:
” it’s because no one really knows what a domain is worth.”
Once you develop sites you can estimate what kind of income you will get, how much marketing costs a good domain will save you, etc. Just because many domainers don’t know how to do this and they make up prices or compare irrelevant sales doesn’t mean it cannot be estimated.
Picture of Alexander about to shoot something: http://bit.ly/Ya7hPc
@ onlinedomain.com
Your points are taken. I was replying at length, when it occurred to me I was sharing too much information.
I’ll simply say, unlike some industries, domaining seems highly speculative. I remember when MSFT was minting millionaires and driving (or perhaps stealing, lol) innovation. Now, they’ve flatlined for years. The very concern Bill Gates predicted, of not being afraid of another large corporation, rather being afraid of a couple of kids in a garage, came true. The tech world, to include domaining, is rapidly changing. I think .Com domainers today are no different than folks who owned MSFT in it’s glory days, who claimed the good times would never end.
We used to watch one MSFT campus entrance and count exotic autos just for fun. Those days eventually came to an end and so too will the .Com era. IMHO. Everything changes. Especially when it comes to the internet and technology. I’m not saying .Com will go away. I’m saying it’s glory days will reflected upon fondly by domainers. Assuming they don’t lose their shirts in the process. You’ve got 1,900+ new strings coming down the line. You can’t speculate on them all. Let alone the 5,000 or 10,000 to follow. Are all these new strings a boon or bust for .Com. I guess we’ll find out.
Anyway, moving on. You seem like an OK guy. Much like Mr. Berkens. I don’t wish you guys any bad luck. Perhaps I’ve just seen too much. I’ll stick with my industry. ; ) If you guys can successfully navigate the coming changes, well, more power to you.