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	<title>Comments on: WIPO Takes Away a Geo Domain; Hayward.com Putting It On Our Worst of 2010 List</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/</link>
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		<title>By: Hayward.com - Ridiculous Court Decision - Indian Domain Names Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26685</link>
		<dc:creator>Hayward.com - Ridiculous Court Decision - Indian Domain Names Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26685</guid>
		<description>[...] a grave error and a dangerous precedence to set. You can read further details along with comments here.  Latest news is that Chad Wright (WebQuest, Inc.) is challenging the decision. Hope he wins his [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a grave error and a dangerous precedence to set. You can read further details along with comments here.  Latest news is that Chad Wright (WebQuest, Inc.) is challenging the decision. Hope he wins his [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MHB</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26627</link>
		<dc:creator>MHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26627</guid>
		<description>UPDATE

The domain owner filed a federal case on this domain to stop the turn over

http://www.elliotsblog.com/webquest-files-lawsuit-over-hayward-com-1087</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPDATE</p>
<p>The domain owner filed a federal case on this domain to stop the turn over</p>
<p><a href="http://www.elliotsblog.com/webquest-files-lawsuit-over-hayward-com-1087" rel="nofollow">http://www.elliotsblog.com/webquest-files-lawsuit-over-hayward-com-1087</a></p>
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		<title>By: StevenH</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26319</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26319</guid>
		<description>We shouldn&#039;t confuse the situation here. Hayward Industries doesn&#039;t apear to be a very large corporation. It seems to be a smallish company who have decided to exploit a hole in the decision making process. How much would you like to wager that the owner of the company was informed of a similar result while swinging a golf club and pounding a bear with a buddy who knew someone that did the same thing.

Things like this tend to make their way through the elitists grapevine very fast. This case will become the norm rather than the exception if it&#039;s left standing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We shouldn&#8217;t confuse the situation here. Hayward Industries doesn&#8217;t apear to be a very large corporation. It seems to be a smallish company who have decided to exploit a hole in the decision making process. How much would you like to wager that the owner of the company was informed of a similar result while swinging a golf club and pounding a bear with a buddy who knew someone that did the same thing.</p>
<p>Things like this tend to make their way through the elitists grapevine very fast. This case will become the norm rather than the exception if it&#8217;s left standing.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Wick</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26314</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Wick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26314</guid>
		<description>Media monopolies, like Florida Times Union, have the resources to build out sites like Jacksonville.com - so where the Panel in Hayward.com thinks they are doing the right thing in killing us - what they are really doing is killing small business and perpetuating big business - i.e. WalMart eminent domain using 3rd party results via Google, Bing, Ask as the justification.

Furthermore, ICANN thru its Gestapo agents, like WIPO,  is simply a &quot;non-profit&quot; club redefining itself (for-profit) every opinion. 

Finally when you are $20K into it plus another $7K in legal/UDRP - and the complainant knows they have an uphill battle - it is probably worth finding at least another $20K to challenge it in Federal Court. Certainly the city of Hayward, itself,  might be willing to muddy the waters as well.

Brian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Media monopolies, like Florida Times Union, have the resources to build out sites like Jacksonville.com &#8211; so where the Panel in Hayward.com thinks they are doing the right thing in killing us &#8211; what they are really doing is killing small business and perpetuating big business &#8211; i.e. WalMart eminent domain using 3rd party results via Google, Bing, Ask as the justification.</p>
<p>Furthermore, ICANN thru its Gestapo agents, like WIPO,  is simply a &#8220;non-profit&#8221; club redefining itself (for-profit) every opinion. </p>
<p>Finally when you are $20K into it plus another $7K in legal/UDRP &#8211; and the complainant knows they have an uphill battle &#8211; it is probably worth finding at least another $20K to challenge it in Federal Court. Certainly the city of Hayward, itself,  might be willing to muddy the waters as well.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26281</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26281</guid>
		<description>Totally nuts!  Big business again trying to destroy the little man.  Corporate giants are here to stay and continue to bully us into submission.  People won&#039;t put up with this for too much longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally nuts!  Big business again trying to destroy the little man.  Corporate giants are here to stay and continue to bully us into submission.  People won&#8217;t put up with this for too much longer.</p>
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		<title>By: StevenH</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26203</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26203</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s clear to most of us that the pool company found a way to exploit his parked page search to make it appear that he was infringing on them. The reality is is that Hayward Industries deceit worked on the WIPO panel.  A good lawyer will probably get this decision tossed and all legal costs placed squarely back on the pool company. 

Just another frivolous case that will help to clog the legal system further, and only caused frustration, simply to end where it began.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s clear to most of us that the pool company found a way to exploit his parked page search to make it appear that he was infringing on them. The reality is is that Hayward Industries deceit worked on the WIPO panel.  A good lawyer will probably get this decision tossed and all legal costs placed squarely back on the pool company. </p>
<p>Just another frivolous case that will help to clog the legal system further, and only caused frustration, simply to end where it began.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Bora</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26201</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Bora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26201</guid>
		<description>MHB -

Very good points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MHB -</p>
<p>Very good points.</p>
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		<title>By: MHB</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26200</link>
		<dc:creator>MHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26200</guid>
		<description>Roger

“informative – though not decisive.” 

Means to me that it was taken into account as a factor, one important enough to mention in detail although not dispositive.

&quot;&quot;in the Panel’s opinion, the purchase price of 20k far exceeded typically expected returns, even with a PPC program&quot;&quot;

What does the panel base this on?

Does the panel have any expertise on what domain typically sell for or what a &quot;typically expected return&quot;?

From their discussion I would say the answer is clearly no.

Therefore since they don&#039;t know a thing about domain valuation or what a &quot;typically expected return&quot; is, how can they offer any opinion on this in a formal legal proceeding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger</p>
<p>“informative – though not decisive.” </p>
<p>Means to me that it was taken into account as a factor, one important enough to mention in detail although not dispositive.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8221;in the Panel’s opinion, the purchase price of 20k far exceeded typically expected returns, even with a PPC program&#8221;"</p>
<p>What does the panel base this on?</p>
<p>Does the panel have any expertise on what domain typically sell for or what a &#8220;typically expected return&#8221;?</p>
<p>From their discussion I would say the answer is clearly no.</p>
<p>Therefore since they don&#8217;t know a thing about domain valuation or what a &#8220;typically expected return&#8221; is, how can they offer any opinion on this in a formal legal proceeding.</p>
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		<title>By: George Kirikos</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26199</link>
		<dc:creator>George Kirikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26199</guid>
		<description>&quot;Informative - though not decisive&quot; implies that it was part of the evidence that the panel &quot;weighed&quot;. Standing by itself, it was not enough, but when added to other &quot;evidence&quot; it apparently tipped the scale.

However, it was obviously *not* &quot;information&quot;, but instead &quot;disinformation&quot;. We&#039;ll see how it goes in the courts. I think the pool company will lose, when all facts are considered. At best, they might get minor money damages, but that in no way implies they are entitled to the domain name itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Informative &#8211; though not decisive&#8221; implies that it was part of the evidence that the panel &#8220;weighed&#8221;. Standing by itself, it was not enough, but when added to other &#8220;evidence&#8221; it apparently tipped the scale.</p>
<p>However, it was obviously *not* &#8220;information&#8221;, but instead &#8220;disinformation&#8221;. We&#8217;ll see how it goes in the courts. I think the pool company will lose, when all facts are considered. At best, they might get minor money damages, but that in no way implies they are entitled to the domain name itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Bora</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/09/wipo-takes-away-a-geo-domain-hayward-com-putting-it-on-our-worst-of-2010-list/comment-page-2/#comment-26198</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Bora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=7323#comment-26198</guid>
		<description>MHB,

The Panel clearly states that the purchase price is &quot;informative - though not decisive.&quot;  It references the purchase price because, in the Panel&#039;s opinion, the purchase price of 20k far exceeded typically expected returns, even with a PPC program.  The main issue was the fact that the domainer was profiting from the Hayward trademark by utilizing PPC advertising that linked to competitor&#039;s products. How is that &quot;fair use?&quot;  Even if the domain was purchased for 1k, same result.  In my opinion, unlikely there will be a new &quot;how much did I pay for that domain name&quot; test that’s determinative in future decisions.

Thanks for the post. -Roger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MHB,</p>
<p>The Panel clearly states that the purchase price is &#8220;informative &#8211; though not decisive.&#8221;  It references the purchase price because, in the Panel&#8217;s opinion, the purchase price of 20k far exceeded typically expected returns, even with a PPC program.  The main issue was the fact that the domainer was profiting from the Hayward trademark by utilizing PPC advertising that linked to competitor&#8217;s products. How is that &#8220;fair use?&#8221;  Even if the domain was purchased for 1k, same result.  In my opinion, unlikely there will be a new &#8220;how much did I pay for that domain name&#8221; test that’s determinative in future decisions.</p>
<p>Thanks for the post. -Roger</p>
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