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	<title>Comments on: Appeals Court Reverses &amp; Allows Suit Against Verisign To Go To Trial: This Is A BIG Deal</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/</link>
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		<title>By: VeriSign Sends You An Early Christmas Present: .Com and .Net Fees To Increase 7% &#124; Domaining Manual</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-23821</link>
		<dc:creator>VeriSign Sends You An Early Christmas Present: .Com and .Net Fees To Increase 7% &#124; Domaining Manual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-23821</guid>
		<description>[...] Our only hope is the pending suit by CFIT against VeriSign, which the appellate court earlier this y... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Our only hope is the pending suit by CFIT against VeriSign, which the appellate court earlier this y&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Barron’s: VeriSign’s Domain Registration/Renewal Fee To Drop To $4 A Year?</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-19246</link>
		<dc:creator>Barron’s: VeriSign’s Domain Registration/Renewal Fee To Drop To $4 A Year?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-19246</guid>
		<description>[...] In touting its undervalued stock price to investors, Barron&#8217;s noted that share prices of VeriSign have underperformed, compared to the stock market, and put the blame squarely on the decision Court of Appeals of in the case of CFIT vs. VeriSign. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In touting its undervalued stock price to investors, Barron&#8217;s noted that share prices of VeriSign have underperformed, compared to the stock market, and put the blame squarely on the decision Court of Appeals of in the case of CFIT vs. VeriSign. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MHB</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15178</link>
		<dc:creator>MHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15178</guid>
		<description>Maik

Personally I think the stock will move higher from here.

The final judgment on this lawsuit, as bad as the potential outcome could be is years away, plus appeals time.

Investors reaction is short lived in this type of situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maik</p>
<p>Personally I think the stock will move higher from here.</p>
<p>The final judgment on this lawsuit, as bad as the potential outcome could be is years away, plus appeals time.</p>
<p>Investors reaction is short lived in this type of situation.</p>
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		<title>By: maik</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15176</link>
		<dc:creator>maik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15176</guid>
		<description>the price went from 23 to 19, around a 20%
do you think it will recover shortly or this can affect very long?
thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the price went from 23 to 19, around a 20%<br />
do you think it will recover shortly or this can affect very long?<br />
thanks</p>
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		<title>By: MHB</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15131</link>
		<dc:creator>MHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15131</guid>
		<description>UPDATED 

Shares of VeriSign fall 14% today, in reaction to the courts ruling.

More at:

http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/08/verisign-shares-fall-14-on-appeals-court-ruling/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPDATED </p>
<p>Shares of VeriSign fall 14% today, in reaction to the courts ruling.</p>
<p>More at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/08/verisign-shares-fall-14-on-appeals-court-ruling/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/08/verisign-shares-fall-14-on-appeals-court-ruling/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Schultz</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Schultz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 21:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15080</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Mike and Phil, for pointing out more of the facts. My impression, then, that Phil was accusing Verisign of greed, as opposed to illegality, was apparently mistaken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Mike and Phil, for pointing out more of the facts. My impression, then, that Phil was accusing Verisign of greed, as opposed to illegality, was apparently mistaken.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Corwin</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15078</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Corwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15078</guid>
		<description>I must respectfully disagree, Jon.

I am not being moralistic, but economic and legalistic (noting of course that the law should be rooted firmly in economic reality and morality). The very heart of the CFIT litigation is a charge that VeriSign has been operating .com under a contract secured by violating the law, and that ICANN set aside its responsibilities to registrants and registrars in exchange for disposing of the litigation brought against it by VeriSign in exchange for a multi-$million payment (and there is no dispute that they received those funds).

ICA supported the CFIT appeal because we believe that VeriSign is reaping  excess profits exceeding an estimated $1 billion over the five year course of the current .com registry contract, in comparison to what the base price and allowable increase provisions would have been in any contract arrived at through the proper course of competitive bidding. This would be true even if VeriSign was the winning bidder, as they were for the .net contract, where the base price was $4.25, not the $6 for .com -- pricing for .com should be lower, in the $3-4 range, given the much larger number of domain registrations and accompanying economies of scale (and there were bidders out there willing to operate the registry at that price level, had they been allowed to compete for it). This is not to say that we approve of the lack of price caps in and the presumptive renewal provisions of the .net contract, but these are problems related to ICANN&#039;s misplaced priorities.

As for misconduct, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals just held that CFIT&#039;s allegations of &quot;predatory and harassing&quot; activities that accompanied the state and federal lawsuits brought against ICANN by VeriSign to prevent a competitive rebid of the .com contract are, if proved, sufficient to sustain a finding of activities to create and perpetuate a monopoly in violation of U.S. antitrust law. That is the  illegal misconduct I alluded to, and it has to do with fact, not morality. If the District Court goes on to find that the evidence supports those allegations it will find conduct that was illegal -- whether it was immoral I leave to the individual readers of The Domains to decide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must respectfully disagree, Jon.</p>
<p>I am not being moralistic, but economic and legalistic (noting of course that the law should be rooted firmly in economic reality and morality). The very heart of the CFIT litigation is a charge that VeriSign has been operating .com under a contract secured by violating the law, and that ICANN set aside its responsibilities to registrants and registrars in exchange for disposing of the litigation brought against it by VeriSign in exchange for a multi-$million payment (and there is no dispute that they received those funds).</p>
<p>ICA supported the CFIT appeal because we believe that VeriSign is reaping  excess profits exceeding an estimated $1 billion over the five year course of the current .com registry contract, in comparison to what the base price and allowable increase provisions would have been in any contract arrived at through the proper course of competitive bidding. This would be true even if VeriSign was the winning bidder, as they were for the .net contract, where the base price was $4.25, not the $6 for .com &#8212; pricing for .com should be lower, in the $3-4 range, given the much larger number of domain registrations and accompanying economies of scale (and there were bidders out there willing to operate the registry at that price level, had they been allowed to compete for it). This is not to say that we approve of the lack of price caps in and the presumptive renewal provisions of the .net contract, but these are problems related to ICANN&#8217;s misplaced priorities.</p>
<p>As for misconduct, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals just held that CFIT&#8217;s allegations of &#8220;predatory and harassing&#8221; activities that accompanied the state and federal lawsuits brought against ICANN by VeriSign to prevent a competitive rebid of the .com contract are, if proved, sufficient to sustain a finding of activities to create and perpetuate a monopoly in violation of U.S. antitrust law. That is the  illegal misconduct I alluded to, and it has to do with fact, not morality. If the District Court goes on to find that the evidence supports those allegations it will find conduct that was illegal &#8212; whether it was immoral I leave to the individual readers of The Domains to decide.</p>
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		<title>By: MHB</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15077</link>
		<dc:creator>MHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15077</guid>
		<description>Jon

Its the position of CFIT that VeriSign has NOT been operating within the law, actually violating the Federal and State anti-trust laws for one.

Read the entire opinion of the court that is referenced in the post, they layout the arguments quite well.

VeriSign is a monopoly so the rules must be different for them, than for you.

If you register or renew a .com or .net you are paying VeriSign, you have no choice.

If you want to buy an aftermarket domain and the guy wants $10K for it, you can elect to buy it, or find another cheaper alternative.

With VeriSign you have no such choice</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon</p>
<p>Its the position of CFIT that VeriSign has NOT been operating within the law, actually violating the Federal and State anti-trust laws for one.</p>
<p>Read the entire opinion of the court that is referenced in the post, they layout the arguments quite well.</p>
<p>VeriSign is a monopoly so the rules must be different for them, than for you.</p>
<p>If you register or renew a .com or .net you are paying VeriSign, you have no choice.</p>
<p>If you want to buy an aftermarket domain and the guy wants $10K for it, you can elect to buy it, or find another cheaper alternative.</p>
<p>With VeriSign you have no such choice</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Schultz</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15076</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Schultz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15076</guid>
		<description>Phil, I don&#039;t think VeriSign should be criticized for &quot;excess profits&quot; or &quot;misconduct&quot; if they have been operating within the letter of the law or ICANN-established regulations. We can certainly seek to change those laws or regulations, but I think moralistic finger-pointing tends to be counterproductive. For example, we domainers are very happy to be able to buy domains for $10 and sell them for $10,000 or more, so I think we need to be careful about accusing others of greed lest the finger be pointed back at us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, I don&#8217;t think VeriSign should be criticized for &#8220;excess profits&#8221; or &#8220;misconduct&#8221; if they have been operating within the letter of the law or ICANN-established regulations. We can certainly seek to change those laws or regulations, but I think moralistic finger-pointing tends to be counterproductive. For example, we domainers are very happy to be able to buy domains for $10 and sell them for $10,000 or more, so I think we need to be careful about accusing others of greed lest the finger be pointed back at us.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Corwin</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2009/06/05/appeals-court-reverses-allows-suit-against-verisign-to-go-to-trial/comment-page-1/#comment-15075</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Corwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=3629#comment-15075</guid>
		<description>Cartoonz is correct that there can only be on registry operator for a gTLD. That makes it a classic &quot;natural monopoly&quot; and the two means that are generally employed to avoid price gouging by such a monopoly are price regulation or periodic competitive market testing through contract rebid, or some combination thereof.  Neither is employed for .com; in fact the contract allows for price increases in some years without any justification. As for the presumptive renewal clause, the way it&#039;s written VeriSign would almost have to deliberately want to lose the contract to ever have it put up for rebid in 2012 or any time thereafter -- so it is a perpetual monopoly. To analogize to real property, it is as if one landlord owned every scrap of land on Fifth Avenue and if you didn&#039;t like his pricing you could move to the Bronx  (no offense to the Bronx, just trying to make a point).

As for next steps on the lawsuit, VeriSign has very deep pockets filled with excess profits from the registry contracts so expect them to drag this out as long as possible given the stakes for them --and then to argue at some point that the gTLD space has fundamentally changed so as to diminish their market power (not that this would excuse past misconduct, regardless of its truth). On the other hand, going to trial will allow for discovery of previously unseen documents, and there may be a chance to get some examination of this deal by the new Administration&#039;s antitrust lawyers, who are already a lot more active than those of the former regime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cartoonz is correct that there can only be on registry operator for a gTLD. That makes it a classic &#8220;natural monopoly&#8221; and the two means that are generally employed to avoid price gouging by such a monopoly are price regulation or periodic competitive market testing through contract rebid, or some combination thereof.  Neither is employed for .com; in fact the contract allows for price increases in some years without any justification. As for the presumptive renewal clause, the way it&#8217;s written VeriSign would almost have to deliberately want to lose the contract to ever have it put up for rebid in 2012 or any time thereafter &#8212; so it is a perpetual monopoly. To analogize to real property, it is as if one landlord owned every scrap of land on Fifth Avenue and if you didn&#8217;t like his pricing you could move to the Bronx  (no offense to the Bronx, just trying to make a point).</p>
<p>As for next steps on the lawsuit, VeriSign has very deep pockets filled with excess profits from the registry contracts so expect them to drag this out as long as possible given the stakes for them &#8211;and then to argue at some point that the gTLD space has fundamentally changed so as to diminish their market power (not that this would excuse past misconduct, regardless of its truth). On the other hand, going to trial will allow for discovery of previously unseen documents, and there may be a chance to get some examination of this deal by the new Administration&#8217;s antitrust lawyers, who are already a lot more active than those of the former regime.</p>
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