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	<title>Comments on: Michael Mann On Domain Hoarding By Registrars and The WLS</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/</link>
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		<title>By: Bido.com - Social Auction Platform - OFFICIAL THREAD - Page 21 - NamePros.com</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-14980</link>
		<dc:creator>Bido.com - Social Auction Platform - OFFICIAL THREAD - Page 21 - NamePros.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-14980</guid>
		<description>[...] Domain Success  Gooruze - Must read FREE ebook titled Make Millions and Make Change by Mike Mann.  Michael Mann On Domain Hoarding By Registrars and The WLS &#124; The Domains  StrongTech sold in management buyout &#124; WashingtonVC  The Domain Game: How People Get Rich ... - [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Domain Success  Gooruze &#8211; Must read FREE ebook titled Make Millions and Make Change by Mike Mann.  Michael Mann On Domain Hoarding By Registrars and The WLS | The Domains  StrongTech sold in management buyout | WashingtonVC  The Domain Game: How People Get Rich &#8230; &#8211; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Today on Bido is passion.us. Mike Mann is our special guest - NamePros.com</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-14979</link>
		<dc:creator>Today on Bido is passion.us. Mike Mann is our special guest - NamePros.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-14979</guid>
		<description>[...] Domain Success  Gooruze - Must read FREE ebook titled Make Millions and Make Change by Mike Mann.  Michael Mann On Domain Hoarding By Registrars and The WLS &#124; The Domains  StrongTech sold in management buyout &#124; WashingtonVC  The Domain Game: How People Get Rich ... - [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Domain Success  Gooruze &#8211; Must read FREE ebook titled Make Millions and Make Change by Mike Mann.  Michael Mann On Domain Hoarding By Registrars and The WLS | The Domains  StrongTech sold in management buyout | WashingtonVC  The Domain Game: How People Get Rich &#8230; &#8211; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Bloniarz</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-10195</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Bloniarz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-10195</guid>
		<description>I just checked my website&#039;s database that drives tools4domains and I don&#039;t see that greenretail.com was not ever up for auction at namejet.com.

 I can&#039;t speak to the domain greenretailing.com as it would be a domain I would track.  

I hope that helps some</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just checked my website&#8217;s database that drives tools4domains and I don&#8217;t see that greenretail.com was not ever up for auction at namejet.com.</p>
<p> I can&#8217;t speak to the domain greenretailing.com as it would be a domain I would track.  </p>
<p>I hope that helps some</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-10172</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-10172</guid>
		<description>*Marc,

That really sucks. I know from my own domain purchases that any domain with the word &quot;Green&quot; and a good noun behind it is very valuable. I think maybe Netsol knows this too? 

I&#039;d followup on mike&#039;s suggestion to read the TOS at Netsol. Even if there is a term in the TOS that states they&#039;re not responsible for autorenew losses, that still may not limit them on liability for &quot;expectation of performance&quot;.  I&#039;m no lawyer, but I&#039;d be very mad to lose those domains. I recommend domain attorney Stephen Sturgeon to look into it for you. I think you&#039;re looking at domains worth at least $20k currently, and probably double/triple that by 2010.

I&#039;d also check my whois emails to see what &quot;expiring notices&quot; were sent to you, and how many.  What notifications did you receive from Netsol?  I&#039;d also call their customer support and try to move your complaint up the ladder. 

I checked the whois for your domains and the expiration date was a whopping five months ago. What took you so long to discover this?

Looks like some hard work ahead for you, but those domains are worth it (for those of you who don&#039;t believe it, try to register a two word domain name with one of the words being &quot;green&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*Marc,</p>
<p>That really sucks. I know from my own domain purchases that any domain with the word &#8220;Green&#8221; and a good noun behind it is very valuable. I think maybe Netsol knows this too? </p>
<p>I&#8217;d followup on mike&#8217;s suggestion to read the TOS at Netsol. Even if there is a term in the TOS that states they&#8217;re not responsible for autorenew losses, that still may not limit them on liability for &#8220;expectation of performance&#8221;.  I&#8217;m no lawyer, but I&#8217;d be very mad to lose those domains. I recommend domain attorney Stephen Sturgeon to look into it for you. I think you&#8217;re looking at domains worth at least $20k currently, and probably double/triple that by 2010.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also check my whois emails to see what &#8220;expiring notices&#8221; were sent to you, and how many.  What notifications did you receive from Netsol?  I&#8217;d also call their customer support and try to move your complaint up the ladder. </p>
<p>I checked the whois for your domains and the expiration date was a whopping five months ago. What took you so long to discover this?</p>
<p>Looks like some hard work ahead for you, but those domains are worth it (for those of you who don&#8217;t believe it, try to register a two word domain name with one of the words being &#8220;green&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: MHB</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-10158</link>
		<dc:creator>MHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-10158</guid>
		<description>Marc

I hope someone helps you on this.

However,  I bet in the terms and conditions of NSI they say they are not responsible for failure to renew a domain set for auto-renew for any reason and its up to the domain holder to verify that the domain has been renewed.

Sucks,  but I bet its in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc</p>
<p>I hope someone helps you on this.</p>
<p>However,  I bet in the terms and conditions of NSI they say they are not responsible for failure to renew a domain set for auto-renew for any reason and its up to the domain holder to verify that the domain has been renewed.</p>
<p>Sucks,  but I bet its in there.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Kaufman</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-10156</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Kaufman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-10156</guid>
		<description>I lost 2 valuable domains when Network Solutions failed to auto-renew my domains.

I spoke with my bank, and they said that NSI. made
no attempt to draw funds from my account on the dates they had claimed to attempt to draw funds.

Two other domains with another registrar had no problem renewing around the same date. There were more than adequate funds to cover the renewal in the account.

I lost GreenRetail.com  and  GreenRetailing.com.
I still own GreenRetailer.com
GreenRetailers.com
TheGreenRetailer.com 
TheGreenRetailers.com

I have not found an attorney who is willing to take the case. Is there enough proof of wrong doing, that the possibility exists for a Class Action?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lost 2 valuable domains when Network Solutions failed to auto-renew my domains.</p>
<p>I spoke with my bank, and they said that NSI. made<br />
no attempt to draw funds from my account on the dates they had claimed to attempt to draw funds.</p>
<p>Two other domains with another registrar had no problem renewing around the same date. There were more than adequate funds to cover the renewal in the account.</p>
<p>I lost GreenRetail.com  and  GreenRetailing.com.<br />
I still own GreenRetailer.com<br />
GreenRetailers.com<br />
TheGreenRetailer.com<br />
TheGreenRetailers.com</p>
<p>I have not found an attorney who is willing to take the case. Is there enough proof of wrong doing, that the possibility exists for a Class Action?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Bloniarz</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-9836</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Bloniarz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 04:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-9836</guid>
		<description>Registrars shouldn&#039;t be allowed to hoard domains, and should be required not to own them after their deletion date.

A bit of history:

First their was WLS 1.0 than after much flack from the registrars verisign and snapnames had to redesign the original process flow.

WLS 2.0, this is the version that was actually approved by ICANN  ( I&#039;m not a fan of how ICANN has handled the secondary market of expired domains ) This would have made verisign and snapnames a mind boggling amount of money!

While Verisign was trying to push wls 2.0 through Pool came onto the scene which made both snapnames and verisign take note of how much people were willing to pay for some domains.  At this time you could backorder a domain at snapnames and if you created your backorder first the domain was yours no auction!

CLS was born partially POOL came onto the scene with their auction platform to compete with snapnames.com, so verisign redesigned WLS and created CLS which allows all registrars to participate in a domain auction on the behalf of their customers.

So to recap we once long ago had backorders, than WLS was proposed and everyone cried wolf, than WLS was revised and actually approved by ICANN but never implemented.  Than came CLS which allows registrars to compete for all dropping domains that registrars delete.

Problem now in our industry the registrars are hording domains, ICANN won&#039;t do a damn thing about it.

We need something like CLS where all registrars can compete for domains on the behalf of their customers.   And ICANN should force registrars to delete their domains.

The money earned from the CLS should be split between the registrars and registry with the original owner of the domain getting 80% of the money.  If the original owner of the domain can&#039;t be located that money goes to charity.

Instead of looking for domains with the bidders on it you can try a service like tools4domains.com that finds the best dropping domains, you can often find quality domains no-one has ordered</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Registrars shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to hoard domains, and should be required not to own them after their deletion date.</p>
<p>A bit of history:</p>
<p>First their was WLS 1.0 than after much flack from the registrars verisign and snapnames had to redesign the original process flow.</p>
<p>WLS 2.0, this is the version that was actually approved by ICANN  ( I&#8217;m not a fan of how ICANN has handled the secondary market of expired domains ) This would have made verisign and snapnames a mind boggling amount of money!</p>
<p>While Verisign was trying to push wls 2.0 through Pool came onto the scene which made both snapnames and verisign take note of how much people were willing to pay for some domains.  At this time you could backorder a domain at snapnames and if you created your backorder first the domain was yours no auction!</p>
<p>CLS was born partially POOL came onto the scene with their auction platform to compete with snapnames.com, so verisign redesigned WLS and created CLS which allows all registrars to participate in a domain auction on the behalf of their customers.</p>
<p>So to recap we once long ago had backorders, than WLS was proposed and everyone cried wolf, than WLS was revised and actually approved by ICANN but never implemented.  Than came CLS which allows registrars to compete for all dropping domains that registrars delete.</p>
<p>Problem now in our industry the registrars are hording domains, ICANN won&#8217;t do a damn thing about it.</p>
<p>We need something like CLS where all registrars can compete for domains on the behalf of their customers.   And ICANN should force registrars to delete their domains.</p>
<p>The money earned from the CLS should be split between the registrars and registry with the original owner of the domain getting 80% of the money.  If the original owner of the domain can&#8217;t be located that money goes to charity.</p>
<p>Instead of looking for domains with the bidders on it you can try a service like tools4domains.com that finds the best dropping domains, you can often find quality domains no-one has ordered</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia Kaehler (DomainBELL)</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-9795</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia Kaehler (DomainBELL)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-9795</guid>
		<description>Interesting information to consider...

Thank you for sharing...

  ~Patricia  (DomainBELL)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting information to consider&#8230;</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing&#8230;</p>
<p>  ~Patricia  (DomainBELL)</p>
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		<title>By: ARE REGISTRARS UNFAIRLY STEALING DOMAIN DROPS? &#124; SUCCESSCLICK.COM</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-9765</link>
		<dc:creator>ARE REGISTRARS UNFAIRLY STEALING DOMAIN DROPS? &#124; SUCCESSCLICK.COM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-9765</guid>
		<description>[...] First, let me give props to Mike at TheDomains.com for running this popular blog article. It seems to have touched a lot of nerves, and the heat is cooking a tasty marbled ribeye I have sitting next to my computer monitor. I recommend everyone reading my blog who hasn&#8217;t seen this article and the comment threads to make a sandwich and read:  http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] First, let me give props to Mike at TheDomains.com for running this popular blog article. It seems to have touched a lot of nerves, and the heat is cooking a tasty marbled ribeye I have sitting next to my computer monitor. I recommend everyone reading my blog who hasn&#8217;t seen this article and the comment threads to make a sandwich and read:  <a href="http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.thedomains.com/2008/11/12/michael-mann-on-domain-hoarding-by-registrars-and-the-wls/comment-page-1/#comment-9762</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedomains.com/?p=1200#comment-9762</guid>
		<description>Let me play &quot;Devil&#039;s Advocate&quot; for the sake of argument. I&#039;ve had extensive experience in all aspects of this &quot;problem&quot; of registrars nabbing expired domains of their customers and reselling them for profit. (For more inside details, see my latest blog post called &quot;Are Registrars Unfairly Stealing Domain Drops?&quot;)

Sorry Mike for the divert, I&#039;ll give you linkbacks within my article and credit your blog. And I owe you one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me play &#8220;Devil&#8217;s Advocate&#8221; for the sake of argument. I&#8217;ve had extensive experience in all aspects of this &#8220;problem&#8221; of registrars nabbing expired domains of their customers and reselling them for profit. (For more inside details, see my latest blog post called &#8220;Are Registrars Unfairly Stealing Domain Drops?&#8221;)</p>
<p>Sorry Mike for the divert, I&#8217;ll give you linkbacks within my article and credit your blog. And I owe you one.</p>
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